Michael Tobis’ interesting post on the 28th May has provided an inspiration for some thoughts.
First thought is about the denialist/skeptic machine, the nature of the debate, and the significance of ‘educating’ the public. There is no question that the machinery of public communication is used more effectively by the ‘skeptic’ camp than by the ‘scientific community’ (inasmuch as these are the competing ‘camps’). Perhaps this has to do with a difference between the people who engage in science as a profession and those who qualify as ‘laymen’ (sic).
It seems that what has not been adequately grasped by too many scientists who blog about climate change is that the lay person’s attitude to the questions arising from the climate change debate are not derived from either fact or reason, primarily, but from belief and inclination to believe. This is not a criticism of the lay person; it is a reflection of the state of our culture, wherein we (the lay people) are obliged to take a great deal on trust in terms of what is or isn’t true about our world, since we lack either the training or the knowledge required to be able to determine for ourselves what specialists have laboured long and hard to work out.
This is why the process of changing social attitudes to issues deriving from scientific research or observation are very slow in coming. My personal observation is that most, if not all, the protagonists in online debate about climate change, come into the discussion, or their own enquiry, with their opinions already at least half-formed. Generally, the engagement with the debate reflects a desire to improve our own understanding, but we tend to be more accepting of the material which suports our predispositions than we are of that which contradicts it. Thus, the process of engagement serves to reinforce our original belief and ‘harden’ our attitude, rather than ‘open’ it out.
From research it appears that the proportion of laymen who are skeptical about AGW, whilst it is regionally different, is currently around 20-25% of the population. But this is too vague, for their skepticism covers a host of uncertainties and beliefs, rather than a simple question of fact. And this is one area where the do-nothings score highly; they are able to play on a range of insecurities and doubts to reinforce their skepticism, since the issues at point have two different fundamental natures.
The first type of ‘lay’ skepticism is the doubt about the facts. The issue is of ‘what’. Generally, more people are content to agree that climate does in fact change, and is changing now, than are inclined to have other doubts. Perhaps this is because we are well-trained to understand that science is good at questions of ‘what’, in other words, the recording and observation of fact and its reporting, of measurement and the observation of trends. Really, there shouldn’t be any debate about this at all, since either the climate is warming or it is not, and either it is being correctly measured or it is not, but even here, the lay reader can be drawn into doubt by skeptics or scientists who cast doubt on the reliability of observing systems or of methodologies.
We don’t understand the problems, but we do understand that the existence of a ‘problem’ in itself casts doubt on the reliability of the claimed facts. Thus, if we are already disposed to skepticism, our doubts are reinforced by the very existence of disagreement; we are able to say ‘See, it isn’t all that certain after all…I am right to have my doubts, since some scientists also have them.’ This skepticism can be challenged by reason and evidence, though people still tend to see only what they want to.
But the second type of issue is far more difficult to deal with. These are the issues not of what is happening to the climate, but of why. We are inclined to understand debates on causality as being more uncertain than issues of fact, since they are often not easily resolvable by purely scientific method, and they are, in our minds, ultimately ‘matters of opinion’. Of those who are skeptical about AGW, more have doubt about the causality than the observation. Here is where the do-nothings have their richest ground; there are many ways to reinforce peoples’ predisposition to doubt when the issue appears, on the surface, to be about matters of opinion.
So, is there a need for ‘better explanations’? Is there a point to having information sources somewhere between the ‘layman’s guides’ and the ‘science pages’? To what extent could these change people’s predispositions or opinions?
First of all, I’d suggest that most, if not all, of the decent blogs about climate change already exist in this ‘middle ground’. Moreover, there are blogs and websites suited to a whole range of levels of understanding, from the completely ignorant and credulous, to the almost completely academic. The ‘better explanations’ probably already exist, and their existence is necessary to counter the well-coordinated and funded subversion provided to the layman from people such as Inhofe and Morano, Spencer and Lomborg.
The question is, to what extent more needs to be done? Is it necessary to further win the ‘hearts and minds’ of the Doubting Thomases, or is the majority already sufficient to ensure action/agreement? We already know that skepticism is more profitable than alarmism for the relevant protagonists, and this suggests that assuming that the battle has been won would be dangerous. But we should not expect to win many converts, or to see many examples of people ‘changing their minds’; we, the lay people, just aren’t wired that way.
Thanks for the inspiration, Michael, and all the others who are out there fighting the good fight…

26 comments
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June 3, 2008 at 12:15 am
Tony
I’m not being funny here but I seriously think you are losing it. The argument you put forward is so full of holes you could sail a tanker through them. You really need to read your writings once over and then again.
June 3, 2008 at 1:54 pm
fergusbrown
Hi Tony. What comments are you objecting to?
June 3, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Tony
Ok first of all I’ll draw your attention to this article out today.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i-fo9VF-W4wxLy-opPvOK9ZvCl9QD9127KVG0
You say “There is no question that the machinery of public communication is used more effectively by the ’skeptic’ camp than by the ’scientific community”.
Nonsense! You can’t watch a TV programme, listen to the radio or read a newspaper without having to trawl through constant guff on “saving the planet” (ludicrous idea, how can you save the planet?). The BBC amongst many other news outlets have closed ranks to such an extent that debate on AGW has now been effectively closed off for good.
Even my local BBC radio station morning phone-in show which features this subject very regularly pours scorn on anyone who phones in and tries to put the other point of view.
You also say,
“It seems that what has not been adequately grasped by too many scientists who blog about climate change is that the lay person’s attitude to the questions arising from the climate change debate are not derived from either fact or reason, primarily, but from belief and inclination to believe”.
That is a very patronising statement and makes me feel that you come to this conclusion because nobody will think the way you do about the issue so it must be the public being stupid and stuck in a mindset you don’t approve of.
Also,
“This is not a criticism of the lay person; it is a reflection of the state of our culture, wherein we (the lay people) are obliged to take a great deal on trust in terms of what is or isn’t true about our world, since we lack either the training or the knowledge required to be able to determine for ourselves what specialists have laboured long and hard to work out”.
As I have said before in an earlier post you are implying that we proles should take as gospel what the clever people are telling us and obey any undertakings they put forward as a solution. Pah!
“My personal observation is that most, if not all, the protagonists in online debate about climate change, come into the discussion, or their own enquiry, with their opinions already at least half-formed”.
……..Not true, not true. I, like many people fell for the consensus when it first started being reported some years ago. Why shouldn’t I have done this? It’s logical after all when top scientists warn of impending doom my ears prick up and I listen to what they say. Since then, thankfully, others in the field have been putting forward the opposite view and having read and listened, I have been shown the other side of the argument. I stumbled onto this topic with a completely open mind and have formed an opinion having seen the evidence which contradicts the supposed consensus.
“Really, there shouldn’t be any debate about this at all, since either the climate is warming or it is not, and either it is being correctly measured or it is not, but even here, the lay reader can be drawn into doubt by skeptics or scientists who cast doubt on the reliability of observing systems or of methodologies”.
……there is plenty of evidence that the methodology and systems of collecting data relating to this are flawed either accidentally or bias in favour of your argument. Read the sceptic blogs and discover how this data is being collected and extrapolated. An eye opener.
“See, it isn’t all that certain after all…I am right to have my doubts, since some scientists also have them.’ This skepticism can be challenged by reason and evidence, though people still tend to see only what they want to”.
…….I throw those last few words back to you. They perfectly describe those, like you, who believe in man-made global warming.
“The ‘better explanations’ probably already exist, and their existence is necessary to counter the well-coordinated and funded subversion provided to the layman from people such as Inhofe and Morano, Spencer and Lomborg.
……still pushing that old argument about the sceptics being in the pocket of rich oil companies? That argument is so last year. Move on. Attack the argument not the people putting forward the argument. Where does that put me? I’m not being funded by any oil company but have form my own reasoned conclusions.
“We already know that skepticism is more profitable than alarmism for the relevant protagonists”………….?????
……excuse me? The alarmists are making millions of Dollars, Pounds, euros from the climate change industry. From building subsidised wind farms, trading in carbon credits, advertising, growing food for fuel whilst people starve, the list is endless and they stand to gain millions more unless something is done to stop this madness. How much money do you think the sceptics are making out of this? Sure a few book sales or ad cliks via Google or if your’e lucky enough some funding from those who might well have vested interests in disproving the assertion but this pales into insignificance compared to those who are geared up to “Help save the planet”.
June 3, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Aaron Lewis
Good Post.
Science and technology are not commumicating with lay people. If there were good solutions to improve the communication, then we would not need to blog about it. However, the folks that very good at selling ideas include people like Scott McClellan and the Bush Administration – and that is not really a model we can use. Then, casinos manage to sell people the losing end of statistial propositions.
Why can’t science and technology sell the truth? Why can’t we sell the winnning end of a statistial proposition (prevent AGW)? We sell cell phones and computers. Why can’t we sell AGW?
You sell wind turbines. If AGW was a wind turbine – How would you sell it?
June 4, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Hank Roberts
Some British wit (Wilde?) said he’d do anything to have a long healthy life — except, of course, exercise and moderate his diet.
Similarly many will do anything needed for public health and safety except, of course, tax anyone or see anyone spend public money.
June 6, 2008 at 3:36 pm
fergusbrown
Thanks for the contributions Hank, Aaron, but I’m going to concentrate on Tony for the time being.
Hi Tony.
I think the point about ‘the machinery of public communication’ needs to be clarified. If I had simply said ‘the internet’, my point would have been made. I agree that most of the media are not arguing the point any more. This is because few pundits or journalists (outside the USA) believe that there is any real debate about the fact of AGW, outside the peculiar interface which we are now using. There is probably a good reason for this.
You contradict yourself: if I thought that nobody agreed with me, I would have had to ignore all that media output. I am not a scientist. My comment is based on observation and study of people’s words. I stick by it: rational debate is rare when it comes to skepticism. This is not a criticism, but an observation.
Then you misunderstand again: perhaps you missed the first sentence of the paragraph.
You are a genuinely rare creature if you have gone the way you describe it, but not unique. This helps to make my main point. In my opinion, reasonable and open study should lead an individual to reach the same conclusion as me; the fact that other reasonable people can come to the contradictory conclusion is evidence of the effectiveness of the skeptical propaganda. You may argue if you wish that it is evidence of my gullibility, but I am not going to agree with you.
You don’t need to direct me to the blogs about data measurement. I have worked with Roger Pielke Sr. and communicated personally with Steve McIntyre: I know what they think. The source work they are sometimes involved with is interesting and scientific, but the use to which it is put by those desparate to have a reason to deny AGW is at best dubious, and much more frequently, downright mendacious.
You will note that I suggested that all participants in the AGW online debate are equally inclined towards their pre-existing prejudice; skeptics are not singled out. I have already made the point for you. Please read more carefully.
If you choose to believe that Morano and Inhofe are ‘Honest Brokers’, and Hansen et al are not, which of us is the fool? Study the evidence, don’t believe the hype.
You are confusing alarmists with economists. It is typical of the dominant capitalist ideology to look for opportunities for the rich to get richer at the cost of the poor, when confronted with the implications of climate change. With Michael, I think this is a fundamentally misguided and inherently dangerous view. Climate change should not be about short-term investment opportunities; it should instead be about prudent preparation for hard times ahead, and the globalisation of inter-human responsibility.
If you can present me with a reasonable case to suggest that human activity is not leading us down a self-destructive path to misery and suffering, I would be interested in hearing it, being the optimist I am.
Best wishes,
June 11, 2008 at 3:23 am
Steve Reynolds
It is interesting that you mention the impact of Steve McIntyre’s (who is not really an AGW skeptic) work. I suspect that impact is much greater than you know. That impact is made larger by people with a scientific background (like me), who see the sloppy and deceptive science that Steve has exposed and communicate our opinions to others.
If you want to inspire more confidence in the results of climate science, you might encourage more climate scientists to follow Steve’s advice to archive their data and transparently deal with issues raised by those outside their club.
June 12, 2008 at 9:11 pm
bobw
“In my opinion, reasonable and open study should lead an individual to reach the same conclusion as me; the fact that other reasonable people can come to the contradictory conclusion is evidence of the effectiveness of the skeptical propaganda.”
That has to be one of the most arrogant statements I have ever read. Science (not just climate science) is full of papers and rebuttals – from highly educated scientist who look at the same data and phenomena and reach different conclusions. This is how science progresses – not by calling dissenting opinions/conclusions part of “skeptical propaganda”
June 13, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Tony
“This helps to make my main point. In my opinion, reasonable and open study should lead an individual to reach the same conclusion as me”……………
Enough said then. You choose what you believe in and no further discussion is neccesary. Good luck with your blog but anything I, or any other contrarian, will say will have fall on deaf ears. Just remember what the consensus was before Galileo put forward his ideas.
Tony.
June 14, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Wadard
“In my opinion, reasonable and open study should lead an individual to reach the same conclusion as me; the fact that other reasonable people can come to the contradictory conclusion is evidence of the effectiveness of the skeptical propaganda.”
That has to be one of the most arrogant statements I have ever read.
===
Only if you regard logic as arrogance.
June 17, 2008 at 9:11 am
Iain Hall
Fergus It seems to me that you have a religious position here and not a scientific one.
Any issue of science should be approached by a sceptical mind not one that seeks to tailor the evidence to a preconceived result.
Frankly your passage dismissing causality is particularly bad.
If the advocates of the AGW theory like you can’t establish a causal relationship between human activity and the perceived changes in the climate then you have nothing of substance whatsoever, and all of the attempts to change the planet are no more sensible than any other end of the world cult building an ark or a stone tower to escape the wrath of god.
June 17, 2008 at 9:16 am
Richard
Hear Hear Steve re: Steve Macintyre.
I am a scientist and a skeptic. You cannot be a scientist and not be a skeptic. There is no such thing as scientific consensus, just consensus between scientists.
June 26, 2008 at 10:32 pm
fergusbrown
Hello to all and my apologies for my tardiness. I have switched from a mostly academic situation to a mostly business one, and consequently have less time to manage things. I will try to respond to all of you who have made the effort.
First up: Hi Steve. You still read like a conspiracy theorist. You seem to be implying that all climate science is sloppy, and therefore all its conclusions are to be doubted. We must draw the distinction between critiquing individual pieces of work and casting doubt on the subject matter to which they refer. I simply do not accept that all of the evidence presented on the subject of AGW is wrong. If there are failings in methodology or logic in the presentation of evidence or of hypotheses, I would argue that it is readily apparent where the lack of rigor truly persists.
June 26, 2008 at 10:38 pm
fergusbrown
BobW and Tony: Wadard makes the point succinctly. It is a matter of logic that, if we believe ourselves to be rational, then we must conclude that another person who sees the same evidence as us but reaches a different conclusion has either made an error or is irrational. It is rare to find a person who would normally conclude that he or she must have been wrong in their own reasoning.
If another person reaches a different conclusion to me, one of us must be wrong, or you end up with a contradiction. We all tend to assume that we are not the ones who are wrong. This psychological tendency may be arrogant, but it is then a communal and collective arrogance, not a personal one, since it is one which most people share.
June 26, 2008 at 10:54 pm
fergusbrown
Iain: That ‘religious not scientific’ line is an old favourite, isn’t it? You are doing precisely what I refer to above; accusing me of irrationality, as one of us must be wrong, and it cannot be you…
I give you credit, however, for at least providing a reason for your criticism. If you think I am ‘dismissing causality’, then either I have written badly, or you have misunderstood; as a philosopher, I am not inclined to be so casual about causality.
The whole point is that there is a causal relationship, well established, between human activity and global warming, and that many people who write critically about AGW know about it. The point I am making is that the tendency of skeptics to try to attack this causal link is borne out of an understanding of the weaknesses of human understanding, not of the weaknesses of the science. This is one reason why some people find the so-called debate confusing; they imagine there is a doubt about the causal relationship, because they are reminded that such relationships are difficult to establish, not because they understand the evidence.
You are entitled not to believe that there is sufficient evidence to justify the claim that a causal link exists between human activity and changes in climate, but you would do so in the face of a mountainous body of evidence which contradicts you. If you wish to establish a credible skeptical position, you must demonstrate that a substantial proportion of the evidence supporting this conclusion is wrong. I look forward to hearing your comments.
June 27, 2008 at 2:22 am
Iain Hall
I was beginning to think that you would never take my comment out of moderation Fergus, anyway I have considered you reply and responded below.
Your problem is that the causal link is NOT so firmly established as you assume, so much of the case For AGW utterly fails to establish the relationship between human activity and climate change is anything more than coincidence.
If such relationships are so” difficult to establish” then it naturally follows that they are far from being unequivocal and just as open to a very different interpretation.
Sure there are a mountain of claims and suggestions about Climate change but there is nothing that would be analogous to a “smoking gun” in a murder trial. Nothing that establishes causality beyond reasonable doubt, but If you know of something that does I am keen to see it.
On all matters of science it is beholden upon those advocating a theory to provide the proof of their proposition and a sceptic has only to establish is that the evidence presented is not conclusive. You are basicly suggesting that because a large body of people believe a proposition then it must be right. This is once again a religious position.
June 27, 2008 at 3:46 am
Steve Reynolds
Hi Fergus,
>You still read like a conspiracy theorist. You seem to be implying that all climate science is sloppy, and therefore all its conclusions are to be doubted.
Not what I said at all. I do not particularly think there is any conspiracy, but the actions of a few (not all or even most) scientists can cast doubt on all, if they are not held to at least basic scientific standards.
My point is that if you want to convince the world of the accuracy of climate science, letting a few get away with withholding data and methods from public scrutiny is very counterproductive to your cause.
June 27, 2008 at 8:15 am
Tony
I have to say I have been persuaded by your argument in terms of different people examining the evidence and drawing their own conclusions. What a very liberating experience.
So having had to time to think about it a little longer I have reached the conclusion, Fergus, that you are bonkers.
Bonkers.
Crackers.
Ding dong merrily on high.
That’s fine though, don’t get too concerned about it, I’m right and you’re not only wrong but bonkers to boot.
June 28, 2008 at 7:39 pm
guthrie
What a nasty post from Tony.
Anyway, Ian Hall, what is this obsession with smoking guns? I presume that stratospheric cooling, greater warming in the northern hemisphere high latitudes, and so on, are not good enough for you? What more do you want? Do you actually know enough of the science to be able to judge?
June 30, 2008 at 7:40 am
Iain Hall
Guthrie
my point to Fergus holds true in relation to your comment too.
Namely can you prove that the phenomena that you cite are actually CAUSEDby human activity? in general and the emissions of CO2 in particular?
This is the central problem with any claims for AGW, not that the data shows a warming trend but to what extent we can establish an actual relationship between that trend and human activity. As for my understanding of the science I don’t claim any special qualification, but I do understand enough to be unimpressed by the smoke and mirrors of the more flamboyant Gurus of the green faith.
June 30, 2008 at 8:18 pm
guthrie
Iain- go do a philosophy of science course. Its clear you havn’t got a clue what you are talking about. If you had, you could actually give examples, instead of bloviating brainlessly.
July 1, 2008 at 1:13 am
Tony
Hey Guthrie, liven up mate.
I’m using the same logic as those who believe in this ridiculous nonsense known as Man-made global warming.
There really is no proof of Man-made climate change.
AGW has replaced socialism as an outlet of peoples frustration at things that happen in the world which they feel are out of their control.
I do, I really do feel some sympathy for you and those who believe this rubbish much in the same way that I feel sorry for those who need the crutch of religious belief in order to function. Those who prop up these nonsense theories are merely the useful idiots who are always there to do the dirty work for those who stand to make lots and lots of money. They have always been there for whatever reason be it an inflated self belief in themselves or just a vehicle to persue a lighthearted intellectual persuit.
This is self-evident when Michael Tobis makes the point that “It seems that what has not been adequately grasped by too many scientists who blog about climate change is that the lay person’s attitude to the questions arising from the climate change debate are not derived from either fact or reason, primarily, but from belief and inclination to believe”.
Rather like a workaday Priest or Vicar or other member of the clergy moaning about how most people refuse to believe in God but still continues to do so in the face of irrefutable evidence that no such God actually exists, warmists continue to spout on and on until the next generation either forgets or ends up despising those who do believe the hype after it has bankrupted their economy and led to severe restrictions in them living their lives as they want to.
July 2, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Iain Hall
Guthrie
Do you even know what the scientific method is?
I doubt it
August 1, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Eli Rabett
Hi Fergus, how is it going?
Eli
August 23, 2008 at 1:26 am
Student
Hello Mr Brown. I was a pupil of yours, interested to read about climate change on your blog. My dissertation was about carbon trading…
I will have a look at some of your posts!
August 30, 2008 at 6:40 pm
guthrie
Ah well, Ian hall has proved a great dissapointment, as has tony.
Since they don’t appear to know anything about science, its history, how it works, or indeed philosophy of science, they continue to demand proof, as if science is merely mathematics.
Nope, it doesn’t work that way.